p 51 mustang vs messerschmitt me 262 p 51 mustang vs messerschmitt me 262

He joined the 361st Fighter Group in . NA P-51 Mustang vs FW 190 Butcherbird Altitude = 25,000 feet61 5.10 Attrition of the Luftwaffe Fighter Force in Early 194463 . P-47 Thunderbolt was gigantic. The P51s iconic design features sleek lines and a distinctive shark mouth painted on the nose, making it truly stand out among its contemporaries. It is the only rocket-powered fighter aircraft ever to have been . Thank you for your support! 24 x Air-to-Air Unguided High-Explosive Rockets. Spitfire had same engine, but despite being smaller, was slower than Mustang. 87. (f-106deltadart.com)] If you have any questions please contact us. In the air around 100 got destroyed according to what I know, and that includes those shot down while landing taking off. had more drag caused by stub fuselage for its cockpit. The Messerschmitt Me 262, nicknamed Schwalbe or swallow, was a force to be reckoned with in the skies during World War II. Im sure that more Me 262s were shot down because the ideology was to get the Mes in landing when they were slow and did not turn well, called "rat catching". There is a newer edition of the book, but I do not have it.). in an Me 262. Messerschmitt AG Perodo de produo 1941-1945 Quantidade produzida 1430 (com os produzidos na Tchecoslovquia) Primeiro voo em 18 de abrilde 1941 (81 anos) com motor a pisto 18 de julhode 1942 (80 anos) com motor turbojato Introduzido em abrilde 1944 Aposentado em 1945, Alemanha 1951Tchecoslovquia Variantes Avia S-92 Tripulao 1 Out of nowhere, 25 Me 262s appeared, flying over 150 miles per hour faster than they could. Meanwhile, in the P-51, fitted with the The final mass-produced version of the Bf 109, the K model, which entered service in the autumn of 1944, had a maximum speed of 452 miles (727 km) per hour and a ceiling of 41,000 feet (12,500 metres). [ref: P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? (arlingtoncemetry.net), P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? that first appeared in mid-1930s, first of which was Me-109. So fast and hard to catch that the P-51 pilots were only able to follow the a/c on landing or wait in squadron strength for the sleek birds to take off..aka "Rat Catching". How high I am not sure. janua genova. 'He The A-2a 'Sturmvogel' had only two 30mm autocannons but could carry up to 1,000 kilograms of bombs. Unfortunately for them (and fortunate for us), they didnt have many of these bad boys on hand while 1,443 were produced, only about 300 saw combat. The German response was the construction of a "flak lane" of over 150 emplacements of the 20 mm Flakvierling quadruple autocannon batteries at Rheine-Hopsten to protect the approaches. The nemesis of P-51 wasn't the jet Me-262 -- it was the radial-engine FW-190. Arguably two of the finest fighters built during the course of World War II, the Me 262 and P-51 Mustang heralded new dawns in aircraft performance. "On November 8, 1950, the then Capt. an equal footing, despite the differences in powerplant and top speed. But the Me 262's rapid rate of climb and its high speed meant it was difficult for even the likes of the P-51 Mustang to counter. Messerschmitt Me 262/Bf109 vs P-51 Mustang War Thunder - YouTube 0:00 / 3:55 Messerschmitt Me 262/Bf109 vs P-51 Mustang War Thunder Kimchan7 27.8K subscribers. from performing well on bomber escort missions and engaging the Luftwaffe. jets could be somewhat offset by the much tighter turning radius of P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262: WE FOUGHT THE ARYAN RACES to the death..WE ARE BRAVE AND STRONG.and if THEY show up . Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this blog contents without express and written permission from this site's author/owner is strictly prohibited. I saw flames burst from the jet orifices of the enemy aircraft. You are using an out of date browser. OPTIONAL: It also acted as a ground attack bomber, capable of inflicting significant damage on enemy troops and equipment. [ref: Wagner, McLaren]. Is there a written history on the Sonderkommando Elbe? Welcome to the WWII Forums! The Messerschmitt Me 262 Schwalbe ("Swallow") was a German aircraft, the world's first operational jet-powered fighter aircraft. should check in the LW Bf 109 kill ratio against the Soviets in 41-43. More information in Terms and rules. In this case, if data were to be transferred to the US, it would not be your personal data but anonymous data that cannot be traced back to you in any way. but it's a pretty good book ;-), I may take a look at that book, thanks. flying 170 missions in a P-51 Mustang, a piston-engine plane in which The P-51 is best known for its long-range escort duty, while the Me 262 was a significant threat to Allied forces. P 51 Mustang's guard the bombers, Their crews call 'our little friends'. they knew they would be completely outnumbered and [ref: 359th Fighter Group by Jack H. Smith] I have found twelve pairs of duplicate Werknummers, i.e. By Firstly, it was used as a fighter plane to battle against Allied aircraft. A Me-163 pilot descended thru a group of B-17 bombers and picked a straggler. As a result, Me 262 pilots were relatively safe from the Allied fighters, as long as they did not allow themselves to get drawn into low-speed turning contests and saved their maneuvering for higher speeds. FW-190 had an engine as powerful as P-47 Thunderbolt but was sleeker and smaller. This was not ground strafing, btw - which other aircraft would have been better at. Blitz VI. May 2003, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: PzJgr ], [ 07. ", LA Times: as later marks became much faster but handling worsened. while laminar-winged Mustang was designed to fly optimally at 400+MPH. Most enemy jet contacts up until October 1944 had been with the rocket-powered Me 163. Thunderbolts could keep flying after sustaining damage that would've destroyed any other fighter. We turned into this attack, but due to the tremendous speed of the enemy aircraft, I was unable to get my guns on him. It depends on what youre looking for. Luftwaffe fighter arms nemesis. So they would loiter high up near the German airfields, dive through the Flak barrages and try to catch them landing. The P-51 and the Me 262 are similar in that they were both used as fighter planes during WWII. The attack on the bombers was ineffective because of the prompt action of my flight in breaking up the attack.. to his death. 2023 - Comparison - BVR - Dogfight. because its jet engines provided far less acceleration than a propeller [ref: Hitlers Jet Plane by Mano Ziegler] This website uses technical and profiling cookies. Anyway this seems like a popular question. Highest kill ratio ever ? 13:12. Is there a table somewhere that lists the air-to-air Me 262 kills by Allied combat aircraft? But when you examine the timing of its creation, it becomes clear that this incredible feat of engineering had a much simpler motivation: fear. None of this prevented the 332nd Fighter Group, commanded by Col. Benjamin O. Davis, from performing well on bomber escort missions and engaging the Luftwaffe the German air force in aerial combat. Many incorrectly believe propeller P-51s were totally outclassed, and much slower, than Me-262 jets. Some people prefer the look of the P-51 over the Me 262. Too fast to catch for the escorting Allied fighters, the Me 262s were almost impossible to head off. Within seconds, his Me 262 began vibrating violently as the tail was buffeted back and forth. There are pros and cons to both aircraft. "He [Col. Joseph Rogers] more than made up for his lack of combat in the Korean War -- Today, the P-51 continues to fly in air shows as a symbol of American military prowess and talent in aircraft design. Dario Leone, Via Mazzini 45, 27030, Langosco (Pavia), VAT IT 02787650189. Each fuel drop tank is jettisoned, As the skies they try to cleanse. No 401's success on October 5 th, was the first Me 262 to be shot down by gunfire and the first in which fire . P-51 Mustang vs. Messerschmitt Me-262 - Which WWII fighter was better? What WWII fighter raid did my great-uncle misremember? 5 years ago. . 15,000ft and headed for the attack, with my flight behind me. Due to his boost, renewed effort and resources were put into the Messerschmitt Me262 . a fast climbing turn to the left. Its elliptical wings made Spitfire beautiful and turn more tightly. The maximum speed of a P51D was 437mph whilst the Spitfire was slightly faster at 448mph. This is because the brushless setup is not working very hard compared to the brushed motor. The IL-2? However, this event was tempered by the loss of three more jets to Mustangs on November 4. The North American Aviation P-51 Mustang is an American long-range, single-seat fighter and fighter-bomber used during World War II and the Korean War, among other conflicts. indicated that his aircraft was hit and on fire, and seconds later he crashed The renowned fighter ace of World War II, General Adolf Galland took his first flight in a Messerschmitt Me262 in ay of 1943. November 1940 . Google Fonts is a service used to display font styles operated by Google Ireland Limited and serves to integrate such content into its pages. The enemy aircraft exploded violently, and as I looked back at the two The waist guns (which my father was assigned to before he was shot down) were in open windows. But there is historical curiosity at stake :-). Fw-190 vs P-51. Please. 262s led by ace Hauptmann Georg-Peter Eder prepared to take off from Achmer to 9 years ago. The transfer of data can only take place anonymously and with prior consent. The first production variant, the Me 262A-1a, entered service in July 1944.This variant, nicknamed Schwalbe (German: "Swallow"), was powered by two 8.8 kN (1,980 lbf) Jumo 004B-1 engines and was armed with four 30 mm MK 108 cannons in the nose.. A single Me 262A-1a/U1 was built with an increased nose armament of two 20 mm (0.787 in) MG 151 cannons, two 30 mm (1.181 in) MK 103 cannons, and two . Willard Millikan) 1944 Aluminium, Black, White, Red. Let's find out! Actual top speed depends on altitude and other factors. He commented that the jet fuel's inflammability "made a kill almost certain when it was in your sights" - he commented that they had to carry a lot of fuel. the two planes,' said Jim Cook, master crew chief at the Pacific since he drew the first drawing of the Twin Mustang with which he was awarded a US patent was forced to abort. By combining the three tables, of known Me262 losses; claims by USAAF; and claims by RAF, in Foreman, Me 262 Combat Diary (1990), assuming that the German numbers are correct, and also that all the dates are as stated, I have obtained the following statistics. But each pilots skill and resolve, On each bomber crew is depending. Drew recounted: I had started shooting from about 60 straight through the flames and scattering debris of his victim: Just as I passed him I saw a sheet of explosion, and a sheet of red-orange flame shot out over an area of about A P-51 faster than a ME-262? Luftwaffe airfields identified as jet bases were frequently bombed by medium bombers, and Allied fighters patrolled over the fields to attack jets trying to land On 7 October 1944, Lt. Urban Drew of the 365th Fighter Group shot down two Me 262s that were taking off, while on the same day Lt. Col. Hubert Zemke, who had transferred to the Mustang equipped 479th Fighter Group, shot down what he thought was a Bf 109, only to have his gun camera film reveal that it may have been an Me 262. We easily out-maneuvered him, and when he dived pass us, I realized the enemy aircraft was jet-propelled. The pilot concluded his account by warning starkly that, Care should be taken when breaking into this type of aircraft. [emphasis added], During March, Me 262 fighter units were able, for the first time, to mount large-scale attacks on Allied bomber formations. The P-51 would have an easier time destroying the much less maneuverable jet since the Mustang could cut every turn the Me-262 tried to make. Messerschmitt ME 262 - Die Wartung . Hit by 30mm minengeschoss : survived. TO roughly 400 kills possibly to the Me 262 units. [ref: P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? [ref: History Channel's "Dogfights"]. section of the enemy aircraft. WinbiTV. Kulp sustained severe wounds but survived. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. was contrived by Lucas for drama, but in reality, would've been stupid. How do/should administrators estimate the cost of producing an online introductory mathematics class? Why did Sidewinder missiles score so well before Vietnam? My research for 8th AF only has ~ 100 Me 262's Awarded (independent of either claims or actual) by 8th AF FC. Which Allied aircraft scored the most air-to-air kills against the Me 262 in WWII? The Messerschmitt Me 262 Schwalbe ("Swallow") was a German aircraft, the world's first operational jet-powered fighter . [ref: P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? Piaggio P.111: 18. Finally, the P51 was also used for reconnaissance missions, gathering intelligence through photography and radio communication. The Messerschmitt Me 262, nicknamed Schwalbe (German: "Swallow") in fighter versions, or Sturmvogel (German: "Storm Bird") in fighter-bomber versions, is a fighter aircraft and fighter-bomber that was designed and produced by the German aircraft manufacturer Messerschmitt.It was the world's first operational jet-powered fighter aircraft.. At low-altitude, FW-190 nearly matched P-51. Just one solo German jet attacking, but it had important innovations from which it excelled. planes that were apparently destroyed twice. During the war, the P-51 established a reputation as a fierce air-to-air combat fighter and as an aircraft capable of blasting ships, trains, and enemy targets in Western Europe. The P-51 achieved greatness at high altitude, where it was at maximum efficiency, while the Bf-109G was good at lower altitudes. External Bombload of up to 1,200lbs, 2 x 20mm Cannons (in addition to existing 4 x 30mm cannons) In fact, the Mustang would prove to be the Coast Air Museum in Santa Rosa and an old friend of Col. Rogers. 22 Jets of JG7 got airborne to attack the bombers steam.JG7 claimed 7x B-17s and 1x B-24 this day, however 8th Air force losses were 3x B-17s and 1x B-24, of which 2x B-17s were lost to the ME262s, with 1x B-17 and 1x B-24 shot down by Flak. [ref: Ziegler for 515MPH]. Number Two: P-51D-5-NA Mustang 44-13926, E2 S, assigned to another pilot but flown on this day by Lieutenant Urban L. ("Ben") Drew. But it was very slow and fragile. Force Service in 1950 at the onset of the Korean Conflict. intercept enemy bombers attacking oil targets. Feb 1, 2010 Thread starter #7 Zniperguy114 Airman 67 0 I would say Mustang's shot most down, because there were more of them escorting bombers and ground strafing. It may not display this or other websites correctly. It was slower, less maneuverable from high wing-loading, had aerodynamic quirks, vicious stalling, narrow landing gear, etc. in two sections and the plane rolled over and went into a flat spin. flame come out near the right wing root. he took a lucky shot at them.'". - February 25, 2013, These are Tuskegee Airmen (left to right) 1st Lt. Roscoe C. Brown, 1st Lt. Marcellus G. Smith, and Col. Benjamin O. Davis, Ramitelli, Italy, March 1945. Not really, the P-51D Mustang was certainly a good fighter. p40 warhawk, landung, warhawk, ww2, p-40, flugzeug, antik, wwii, p40, klassisch, curtiss, HD-Hintergrundbild Very good article, one that needs to be repeated again and again. They shot down 12 bombers and one fighter for the loss of three Me 262s. F-82 Twin Mustang This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. After seven Tempests were lost to flak at Hopsten in a week, the "Rat Scramble" was discontinued. One Honduran Corsair shot down an El Salvadoran Mustang and another Corsair (both nations had Corsairs). . The shortage of drop tanks at Ramitelli forced the maintainers to get creative. Not sure about the actual numbers, but I read Pierre Clostermann's Big Show and the RAF had a specific tactic of using Tempests to catch ME262s returning to base. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. The Facebook Like button and social widgets are used to interact with the Facebook social networkand are provided byFacebook Ireland Ltd. All rights reserved. . By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. swooped down. defensive tactics were applied, with very precise timing of each The world's first operational jet fighter. Also Read: North American F-82 Twin Mustang. The British Hawker Tempest scored several kills against the new German jets, including the Messerschmitt Me 262. I am not going to downvote your answer because I appreciate your time and effort, but others here may since it offers nothing new not already included in the question (except another potentially good book I may add to my library), so be prepared (and please don't take it personally if someone does! Rogers achieved a rare MiG-15 jet @PieterGeerkens First, any reminder that statistical rigour should be followed deserves an upvote - you got mine. There was black smoke and an explosion.. March 1945 off the Frankfurt Autobahn. Where they failed was in designing practical airplanes using available technology and materials. This title explores the formidable Me 262 and P-51 Mustang, two planes which represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance, and combat capability for their respective air forces.