It is now more commonly referred to as the Northwest Irish/Lowland Scots variety.[15]. The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's legendary status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded. control of all the island. have been accepted, even expected, in Celtic circles from an important findings led them to the notion that Niall of the Nine Hostages may be the Big According to legend, Niall led one of the most powerful and enduring Irish kingdoms and it has been suggested that because of high rates of Irish emigration to North America and other parts of the world, up to two or three million men descend from Niall! Historical Irish annalistic and chronicle sources place his reign in the late 4th and early 5th centuries, although modern scholars date him about half a century later. Niall is presumed, on the basis of the importance of his sons and grandsons, to have been a historical person, [2] :70 but the early Irish annals say little about him. Cookie Notice the way of these old tales, she's not just unattractive, she's positively A second, Then his father said: "It is Niall who should succeed me as Ard Righ of Eirinn". Keating, quoting a Latin Life of Saint Patrick, says that Niall led Irish raids on Roman Britain, and in one of those raids Patrick and his sisters were abducted. The child was rescued by a great poet of that time, Torna, who reared and educated him. M222 is roughly 2000 years old, so even though it is mostly found among men with Irish or Scottish heritage, it's not unusual to find it anywhere in Europe. Cairenn Chasdub; Caireann ("curly-black (hair)") was, according to medieval Irish legend and historical tradition, the daughter of Sachell Balb, king of the Saxons, the second wife of the Irish High King Eochaid Mugmedn, and the mother of Niall of the Nine Hostages.. These sources date from long after Niall's time and they have little to no value as history. He is said to have three sons by his first wife Brioin, Fiachra and Ailill. 279. r/23andme. I'm of Mexican decent with 0% of Irish showing up in my results; how did I get a common ancestor with Niall of the Nine Hostages? Niall makes war in Europe as far as the Alps, and the Romans send an ambassador to parlay with him. Niall of the Nine Hostages, One of the Most Fruitful Kings in History The saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages" says that he received five hostages from the five provinces of Ireland (Ulster, Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Meath), and one each from Scotland, the Saxons, the Britons and the Franks. All sources agree he died outside Ireland. Niall of the Nine Hostages leapt from the legends of Ireland Descended from Conaire and a daughter of the High King Conn of the. Keating has Eochaid shoot Niall from the opposite bank of the river Loire during his European campaign. The rise of the U Nill dynasties and their conquests in Ulster and Leinster are not reliably recorded but have been the subject of considerable study and attempts to reconstruct them. [S9180] "Email, no hard copy" , Stewart Baldwin Medieval-L Quoting from "A New History of Ireland" except generations 5-8, which are given in the Ban Shenchus and confirmed in the O'Cathalain pedigree in O'Clery 857. There is a large community of M222 men and a very interesting "family tree" of sorts is emerging as these men get into Y-DNA testing. [2] The chronology of Keating's Foras Feasa ar irinn broadly agrees, dating his reign from 368-395, and associating his raiding activities in Britain with the kidnapping ofSaint Patrick (ca. [3 ] Mongfind appears to have been a supernatural personage: the saga "The Death of Crimthann mac Fidaig" says the festival of Samhain was commonly called the "Festival of Mongfind", and prayers were offered to her on Samhain eve. Genealogical pedigrees dating back to the 5th century, when Laedhaire's children and grandchildren were around, are considered accurate. 23andme specifies it as R-M269 and says "You share a paternal-line ancestor with Niall of the Nine Hostages" . Although these studies are not coordinated with each other and are ongoing, it is already apparent that not all of these lineages are related to each other within Niall's timeframe. The rise of the U Nill dynasties and their conquests in Ulster and Leinsterare not reliably recorded but have been the subject of considerable study and attempts to reconstruct them. And any explanations why it would be present in my ancestry? County Mayo folks have Viking blood as well as that of Niall of the Hostages. Of Niall's youth there are many legends, but one in particular show the working of his destiny. Journal reference: American Journal of Human Genetics (February issue). One of In fact, researchers have estimated that between 2 and 3 million men with roots in north-west Ireland are paternal-line descendants of Niall.". Niall of the Nine Hostages - Wikipedia If 23andMe says you're M222+, that part is not BS. [4]:81 T. F. O'Rahilly argues that Niall and his sons were responsible for the breakup of the ancient kingdom of Ulster and the creation of the kingdoms of Tr Chonaill and Tr Egan, and the satellite kingdom of the Airgalla. Many and many a time, in Alba, in Britain, and in Gaul, must Niall have measured his leadership against the best leadership of Rome, and pitted the courage and wild daring of his Scotic hosts against the skill of the Imperial Legions. The Annals of the Four Masters dates his accession to 378 and death to 405. A recent source shows this Angus as the father of Foghan Owen (also named by that source as Eochaid) Whilest many sources sho the decent through Niall "of the 9 Hostages"? He and his descendants continued to dominate much of Ireland [5] Laidchenn responds by satirising Leinster so that no corn, grass or leaves grow there for a year. [22] Indeed, more recent estimates indicate that the R1b-M222 subclade marked by the Moore et al. I welcome your input, feedback and support: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1195848313/niall-and-the-stone Niall Nogallach (Old Irish "having nine hostages") (pronounced [ni%CB%90%CB%88%C9%99l nojilax])[1], English: Niall of the Nine Hostages, son of Eochaid Mugmedn, was an Irish king, the eponymous ancestor of the U Nill kindred who dominated Ireland from the 6th century to the 10th century. She Niall is presumed, on the basis of the importance of his sons and grandsons, to have been a historical person,[2]:70 but the early Irish annals say little about him. All but two of the High Kings of Tara came from this family. Niall was grandson of Muiredeach Tireach. Similarly, the Genographic Project is a virtual gathering of humanity connected by myriad migration routes around the world over the last 60,000 years. Niall Nogallach (Niall of the Nine Hostages) was an Irish king, the ancestor of the U Nill kindred who dominated Ireland from the 6th century to the 10th century. [ 11] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. signature. [20] suggesting that his Y chromosomal signature had been discovered, popular science journalists and genetic testing companies began promoting the theory that millions alive today have an unbroken descent from Niall.[21]. Although brought to Ireland against his will, the . [12], In another story, the succession is not settled when Eochaid dies, and Mongfind's brother Crimthann takes the high kingship. The Genographic Project Team, who conducted the study, returned to County Mayo to reveal the ancestry results of 100 local residents who participated in the Gathering Ireland event in June 2013. The geneticists estimated that there are about 2-3 million males alive today who descend in the male-line from Niall. Niall must have made many incursions into Britain and probably several into Gaul. This was expected of someone of his status in a polygamous society where all Abruptly, the tale then has Niall appearing before an assembly of Pictish bards in Scotland, where he is killed by an arrow shot by Eochaid from the other side of the valley. the modern surnames associated with the Ui Neill include (with or without the O Eochaid gives the task to a druid, Sithchenn, who devises a contest between the brothers, shutting them in a burning forge, telling them to save what they can, and judging them based on which objects they choose to save. (Remember that women have two X chromosomes while men have one X and one Y chromosome). Moore et al. There is a legend that on one of his ventures into Gaul, he captured a young boy. Crimthann refuses to drink it unless she does too; they both drink, and both die. I'm stuck at R-P311 and 23andme gives Niall of the Nine Hostages which is flat out DUMB. hostages from the family of neighbours and under-kings. In the saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", Eochaid's enmity with Niall begins when he is refused hospitality by Niall's poet, Laidcenn mac Bairchid. SidmartinBio", "The Adventures of the Sons of Eochaid Mugmedon", "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", "Show Somerled People | Clan Donald USA, Inc", The genetic imprint of Niall of the Nine Hostages, "If Irish Claim Nobility, Science May Approve", National Center for Biotechnology Information, A Social History of Ancient Ireland, Vol. nose and a serious case of puss popping zits. Article in The Times: "High King Niall: the most fertile man in Ireland", http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article788652.ece. This suggestion is no longer plausible. The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's legendary status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded. The maternal DNA results showed greater genetic diversity than the paternal, including lineages that dated back to some of the islands earliest settlers, and some others that arrived more recently, ie: the Vikings. Fiachrae and Ailill then make war against Crimthann's son Eochaid, king of Munster. By his wife, Carthann, daughter of a British king, Eochaid had the son Niall. "When Scots came thundering from the Irish shores. Emain Macha, the capital of the Uliada, which Niall captured early on, became the capital of the Airgialla (lit: "givers of hostages") which is said to explain Niall's second name (Noigiallach = "of the Nine Hostages"). Niall reigned for twenty-seven years before being killed by the arrow of a rival, Eochaida, the deposed king of Leinster. [9][10], Although it is anachronistic for Niall's mother to have been a Saxon, O'Rahilly argues that the name Cairenn is derived from the Latin name Carina, and that it is plausible that she might have been a Romano-Briton. She gives birth as she is drawing water, but out of fear of Mongfind, she leaves the child on the ground, exposed to the birds. Brin defeats Fiachrae and hands him over as a prisoner to Niall, but Fiachrae's son Nath continues the war and eventually kills Brin. [13], While Niall is high king, his brothers establish themselves as local kings. That is to say, after 6-10 generations, you will lose track of entire ancestors and their ethnicity. Niall fitted out a large fleet and sailed to the assistance of his people. Understanding Niall of the Nine Hostages & Descendants - Facebook [10], While Niall is high king, his brothers establish themselves as local kings. She grants Niall not only water but the kingship for many generationstwenty-six of his descendants will be High Kings of Ireland. Niall releases Fiachrae, who becomes king of Connacht and Niall's right-hand man. Women do not have Y-dna. Their father, who was looking on (and who, say some, designedly caused the fire, to test his sons), observed with interest Neill's distinctiveness of character, his good sense and good judgment. County Mayo folks have Viking blood as well as that of Niall of the Hostages. [3] Laidchenn responds by satirising Leinster so that no corn, grass or leaves grow there for a year. All sources agree he died outside Ireland. [5], This "loathly lady" motif appears in myth and folklore throughout the world. Yet his fall in a foreign land was to be compassed, not by the strategy or might of the foreign enemy, but by the treachery of one of his own. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Niall was the founder of the most powerful Irish royal dynasty as his descendants ruled Ireland for the 6 centuries after his death. The geneticists estimated that there are about 2-3 million males alive today who descend in the male-line from Niall. Niall of the Nine Hostages, (in Irish, Niall Naoi Nogiallach) is a quasi-historical character in Ireland's story. They defeat him and win great spoil, but Fiachrae is wounded in the battle and dies of his wounds shortly afterwards. She gives birth as she is drawing water, but out of fear of Mongfind, she leaves the child on the ground, exposed to the birds. . Is this accurate at all? He then kills Laidchenn by throwing a stone which lodges in his forehead. The sources for the details of Niall's life are genealogies of historical kings, the "Roll of Kings" section of the Lebor Gabla renn, Irish annals such as the Annals of the Four Masters, chronicles such as Geoffrey Keating's Foras Feasa ar irinn, and legendary tales like "The Adventure of the Sons of Eochaid Mugmedon" and "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages". The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. [3] However, the traditional roll of kings and its chronology is now recognised as artificial. Editors note: This post has been edited to reflect changes to the 23andMe ancestry product. The Annals of the Four Masters dates his accession to 378 and death to 405. His men carry his body home, fighting seven battles on the way, and his foster-father Torna dies of grief. [7], The Lebor Gabla renn says there was war between Niall and nnae Cennsalach, king of Leinster, over the brama or cow-tribute first imposed on Leinster by Tuathal Techtmar. Brin rules the province of Connacht, but Fiachrae makes war against him. Niall of the Nine Hostages , or Niall Nigiallach, was the youngest son of Eochaidh Mugmedon (King of Connacht). and our If you are an exact match, your profile in FTDNA will have a green graphic that states your DNA is an exact match to Niall. McManus, Molloy, Reilly, Rourke and Quinn. Of their Irish sample, the geneticists found that 21 percent of men from north-western Ireland, 8 percent from all of Ireland, a substantial percentage of men from western and central Scotland, and about 2 percent of men from New York bore the same Y-chromosome haplotype. She grants Niall not only water but her name, Alexi, and the kingship for many generations twenty-six of his descendants will be High Kings of Ireland. [6], Early in 2006, geneticists at Trinity College, Dublin suggested that Niall may have been the most fecund male in Irish history. [6]:216-217 Keating describes her not as a Saxon but as the "daughter of the king of Britain". Niall succeeds to the High Kingship, and Brin becomes his second in command. I may be wrong though. Oh, got it. Patricus later came to be known as St. Patrick. Y-DNA is and our Niall of the Nine Hostages. Niall does not have verifiable remains that can be tested. fingerprint of Niall of the Nine Hostages in the y-DNA of one in five men the first high king of Ireland. Then Niall, showing strength of character, even in his early youth, took his mother from her menial task, and restored her to her place. latter a misleading term that should not be construed as meaning the bearer had Or is it just bs from 23andMe? Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. If a man has a sub-type of this lineage (called R1b1b2a1a2f2), however, its much more likely that his DNA might actually trace to Ireland. The common ancestor that you and Niall have wasn't necessarily from Ireland. [3] However, the traditional roll of kings and its chronology is now recognised as artificial. France, killed on the banks of River Loire. haplotype originated at least several centuries before Niall is claimed to have lived, so his descendants would only represent a minority of men in this group. [2] He was himself the grandson of King Conn of the Hundred Battles. One of them, Patrick, was the sixteen-year old son of a British Roman official. Maternal lines are inherited through mitochondrial DNA both women and men have mitochondrial DNA, but its only the mothers mitochondrial DNA that is passed on to a child. [10] He is succeeded by his nephew Nath . Byrne suggests that Niall's death took place during a raid on Roman Britain. While Brian saved the cariots from the fire, Ailill a shield and a sword, Fiachra the old forge trough, and Fergus only a bundle of firewood, Niall carried out the bellows, the sledges, the anvil, and anvil block - saved the soul of the forge, and saved the smith from ruin. [6], However, the early annals record the activities of his sons between 429 and 516, an implausibly long time-span for a single generation, leading scholars like Kathleen Hughes[4] and Francis J. Byrne[3]:7879 to conclude that the events of the later half of the 5th century have been extended backwards to accommodate as early a date as possible for the arrival of Saint Patrick, with the effect of pushing Niall back up to half a century. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. They defeat him and win great spoil, but Fiachrae is wounded in the battle and dies of his wounds shortly afterwards. modern parlance, he put it about. See related article at Florida Irish Heritage Center. ", Annala Rioghachta Eireann. Known as Niall of the Nine Hostages from the nine counties of Ireland that he subued and made tributary to him. Receive the latest from your DNA community. These Connachta later extended their power eastward into the plain of Meath, and under the leader Teutovalos Teachtmhar overthrew the kingship of the Lagini at Tara around AD 300. gene. The Annals of Inisfallen date his death before 382, and the Chronicon Scotorum to 411. 452. Worst case scenario, fwiw I think I can transfer my DNA over to FTDNA and I should have my haplogroup like asap. In Since women dont inherit a Y chromosome, they must trace their paternal line through their fathers, brothers or paternal uncles Y-chromosome data. List of haplogroups of historic people - Wikipedia Killed in Battle. of Niall's promiscuity (a trait that, according to Celtic thinking, went hand [7] However, the early annals record the activities of his sons between 429 and 516, an implausibly long time-span for a single generation, leading scholars like Kathleen Hughes[5] and Francis J. Byrne[4]:pp. Irish High King Niall Of The Nine Hostages (Niall Nogallach) - DNA Meath) and also captured a Briton, a Gaul, a Saxon and a Scot. According to McVoy this area was the main powerbase of the Ui Neill kings, which literally translated means "descendants of Niall". His father, Eochaid Muig Medon, son of Muiredeach, became Ard Rich mid way of the fourth century. Our DNA tests indicate that we "share a paternal-line ancestor with Niall of the Nine Hostages. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Yet how often out of evil cometh good. The saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages" says that he received five hostages from the five provinces of Ireland (Ulster, Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Meath), and one each from Scotland, the Saxons, the Britons and the Franks. and tr. Irish tradition had forgotten that the Romans once ruled Britain, and relocated his remembered confrontations with the Empire to continental Europe, with Alba, the ancient name for Britain, being confused with Elpa, the Alps, or being understood with its later meaning of Scotland. [3] The O'Higgins family claims descent from the Southern branch of U Nill. I was just wandering because it said most Irish have the common ancestor as well. DNA research that traces a distinctive genetic marker back to the Irish High King, Niall Nogallach (Old Irish "having nine hostages"). However, the traditional roll of kings and its chronology is now recognised as artificial. M222 signature to the mid-5th century when Niall of the Nine Hostages may mutations (changes) occur infrequently but, when they do, they help to strongest associations are with the surnames traditionally linked to the Ui Consider helping the NIALL Project, a DNA descendants group of Niall [6], Keating credits Niall with two wives: Inne, daughter of Lugaid, who bore him one son, Fiachu; and Rignach, who bore him seven sons, Legaire, ndae, Maine, Egan, Conall Gulban, Conall Cremthainne and Coirpre. Furthermore, the paper examined only 17 STR loci, which are not a reliable means of verifying descent, as SNPs, which define haplogroups and subclades, would be. But claiming that you're descended from Niall of the Nine Hostages is BS, because even if it were true, there is no proof. Crimthann returns to Ireland intending to give battle. Niall, the son of Ivocatus Magumedonus ('Eochaidh the Slave-ruler'), came to lead the Connachta in the fifth century AD.[8]. Crimthann returns to Ireland intending to give battle. My father was born in Hungary, how common is this haplogroup for those with eastern european ancestry? He gave rise to the powerful and widespread O'Neil (Ui Neill) dynasty of . Then Niall makes war against Leinster, and peace is concluded on the condition that Eochaid is handed over. 390-461). certainty, even if its founder is not. [4] The later Annals of the Four Masters dates his reign to 379405,[5] and the chronology of Geoffrey Keating's Foras Feasa ar irinn to 368395. [11] nna's son Eochaid is named as Niall's killer in all sources, although the circumstances vary. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts [6] O'Rahilly suggests that the nine hostages were from the kingdom of the Airgialla (literally "hostage-givers"), a satellite state founded by the Ui Nill's conquests in Ulster, noting that the early Irish legal text Lebor na gCeart ("The Book of Rights") says that the only duty of the Airgialla to the King of Ireland was to give him nine hostages.[7]. Brin defeats Fiachrae and hands him over as a prisoner to Niall, but Fiachrae's son Nath continues the war and eventually kills Brin. Moore, Laoise T., Brian McEvoy, Eleanor Cape, Katharine Simms and Daniel G. Bradley, O'Grady, Standish H. (ed. He died in a raid on Roman France in 405 AD. Husband of Inne ingen Lugaid and Roigneach ingen Meadaib But while he is away on a tour of his lands in Scotland, Mongfind's sons seize Ireland. Confirm you are 100% Irish with DNA test | IrishCentral.com You absolutely do not understand. distinguish one line of DNA from another. His name comes from a tale of nine hostages that he held from the regions he ruled over. Perhaps more myth than man, Niall of the Nine Hostages is said to have been a King of Tara in northwestern Ireland in the late 4th century C.E. [4], A legendary account of Niall's birth and early life is given in the 11th century saga Echtra mac nEchach Muimedin ("The adventure of the sons of Eochaid Mugmedn"). She grants Niall not only water but the kingship for many generations - twenty-six of his descendants will be High Kings of Ireland. Geoghegan - Wikipedia County Mayo residents were fascinated to learn that there is Viking DNA in their makeup, a fact discovered thanks to the National Geographic. Niall chains Eochaid to a standing stone, and sends nine warriors to execute him, but Eochaid breaks his chain and kills all nine of them with it. niall of the nine hostages 23andme - johnnyroadtrip.com 4.00. The Munstermen renew the battle, capture Ailill and cut him to pieces, and war continues between Munster and Connacht for many years. His body is said to have been buried at Ochann, now known as Faughan Hill at Jordanstown, a few miles west of Navan in County Meath. The earliest version of the Lebor Gabla says Eochaid killed him on the English Channel, later versions adding that Niall was invading Brittany when this happened. [3] Laidchenn responds by satirising Leinster so that no corn, grass or leaves grow there for a year.