Volkswagen Scirocco Body Kit, (http://www.firstskinfoundation.org/types-of-ichthyosis/ichthyosis-vulgaris), (https://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/diseases/6752/ichthyosis-vulgaris), (https://rarediseases.org/rare-diseases/ichthyosis-vulgaris/), Visitation, mask requirements and COVID-19 information, Thick, rough skin that looks dirty, most noticeably on the palms and soles of the feet. Currently many families and individuals in the FIRST community, affected with ichthyosis or a related skin type, are enthusiastically participating in clinical trials, behavioral studies, member surveys and more. Ichthyosis Vulgaris (IV) is one such disorder that can lead to severe discomfort and requires proper care lifelong. 1. My husband has ichthyosis and he showers using baby shampoo which is very mild. Supplements containing vitamin C, and vitamin E to maintain the body and help Ichthyosis Vulgaris. It is antimicrobial! Ask your doctor about selenium sulfide, which you can only get by prescription. Symptoms include dry, itchy skin and scales. Ichthyosis is an extremely dry scaley skin condition with lots of irritation in some cases, which can make it really itchy. it clears up in the summer,but when fall gets close it starts to show up.scales that looks like fish scales. We have used Manuka in our family for the past 30 years, and it has been super helpful to us and many people. In ichthyosis vulgaris, skin cells reproduce at a normal rate, but they dont separate at the skins surface, as they normally do. In addition to those mentioned above, there are a number of lotions on the market that contain chemical additives and unnatural ingredients. I was wondering if anyone has any recommendations on what makeup brands are good to use on my dry face. Foundation for Ichthyosis and Related Skin Types, Inc. National Center for Advancing Translational Sciences/Genetic and Rare Diseases Information Center (GARD). Immediately apply a lotion or cream from head to toe. Total Meals Sent Learn More. Such ointments can ease the burning or stinging that the water might cause and can rid the skin of deep cracks. You should always speak with your doctor or health care professional before you start, stop, or change any prescribed part of your health care plan or treatment and to determine what course of therapy is right for you. in my family,we have a skin disorder since I can remember. I do this for awhile until I can tell I've got a lot of the dandruff out and my hair is pretty oily and also covered in dandruff. Other more rare types of ichthyosis have a different genetic background. The healer completed his diploma in acupuncture sciences from the Academy Of Acupuncture working under the Indian Acupuncture Federation. The term ichthyosis was coined more than 200 years ago from the Greek word for "fish".1 IV is the most common type of ichthyosis, with an incidence of 1:250 live births.2 The genetic mutation involves decreased production of a protein in the skin called filaggrin (ie, filament-aggregating protein).3 . Ichthyosis vulgaris is the most common and mildest form of ichthyosis. Thanks for reading and if you have anymore questions just ask and I'll tell you everything I know! In the summer, the disease can virtually disappear because of the warm, moist air. Ta-da! 3 drops Lavender essential oil, 1 cheap blender that you dont mind gunking up Moisturizer can lock in moisture from the bath into the skin. In contrast, rare congenital ichthyoses are inherited diseases, which at birth typically present collodion membranes or ichthyosiform . Causes, diagnosis and treatment are explained. It is the most common form of ichthyosis, affecting around 1 in 250 people. It is found in a number of foods including vegetable oils, nuts, seeds, and leafy greens. Add some essential oil to mask the smell. Ichthyosis vulgaris is a skin condition that happens when the skin doesn't shed the dead skin cells. Wait for 5-10 minutes. Old people who are bedridden for years may also have this condition but in a mild manner. Its making the skin cough in the pores and hair shafts of my skin come to the surface where it can be removed. Penetrance is 90%. Learn about User Reviews and read IMPORTANT information about user generated content. This is ichthyosis. Glycerine - 30mL (1/2 a bottle) National Organization for Rare Disorders. For the most part, people who have ichthyosis vulgaris live a normal life, although they will probably always have to treat their skin. It contains only plant-based ingredients such as olive oil, coconut oil, and jojoba seed oil (which is particularly effective for moisturizing the skin). Sorry for my awful grammar. Symptoms in different patients vary in severity, from mild to severe. Even though there isnt any cure found, these remedies will help you to decrease the severity of the condition and manage the symptoms easily. This is called inherited ichthyosis vulgaris. Essential oils as desired for scenting (I like orange, but lavender is also nice). Buccaneers Injury Report Espn, The doctor might perform a biopsy (removing a small portion of the skin for examination under a microscope). How Often Should You Shower With Ichthyosis? The docter advised a hormone creme but I wonder if someone knows a more natural product to soften his skin. I don't care if the pajamas get ruined; it saves my bedding, and it keeps all of my products on my skin! A few alternative and homeopathic remedies exist for ichthyosis vulgaris. (4 Best Remedies), What Herbal Medicine can Cure Tuberculosis? If you are in a surrounding with extreme temperatures, then use moisturizers regularly to avoid dry skin. Below, I have compiled a list of the best products for Ichthyosis for you that are natural and good for your skin, and also others to avoid. (7 Best Yoga Poses), 8 Best Stationary Bike for Heavy Person (Foldable, Recumbent), How to Treat Osteoporosis Naturally and Fast? Keep bottles of lotion in your car, your purse or man-bag, etc., so that you always have it when you need it. mac miller faces indie exclusive. Ichthyosis vulgaris is fairly common, affecting one of every 250-300 people (male and female, and of all races). (5 Detoxing Foods), How to Cure Ichthyosis Vulgaris Naturally? Shea butter is a natural product that has been used for hundreds of years by African women for its moisturizing and nourishing properties. Adding sea salt to bath water may also reduce burning, stinging and itching. Look out for ingredients you are allergic to and avoid such products. With so many products out there on the market it can be difficult to choose or pick out the right one for you. I sprinkle it liberally on 2 sleepers in my bathroom sink and hand wash really well before putting in with the laundry, the oil pulls right out. It is really nice to be able to find others who know how we feel and I'm glad you found this :) Thank you for the tips also, I really appreciate hearing how others handle their skin. It can restore moisture to dry skin, making it more supple and soft. Ichthyosis vulgaris is the most common and mildest form of ichthyosis. Ichthyosis is a skin condition where dry, thickened, scaling skin appears on the surface. @emily I know what mean about summer and winter, I love summer and other than my legs you can't tell I have it at all either. So greatful i came back to this site.Thank You So Much. My hair is falling out in chunks because I also have the added complication of psoriases. Coconut Body Balm (from The Coconut Oil Diet) 1 ounce of shea butter 4 ounces of virgin coconut oil 2 ounces of distilled water 6 mL (approx. For me, at least, being in the sun helps my skin a lot. FIRST is a great organization and support system. This leads to a dry, dead skin cells that accumulates in small patches on the surface of the skin. I let it stay on until it dries, then shower off. Ichthyosis vulgaris in children is usually caused by a gene for the disease that is inherited from one or both parents. Petroleum has high amounts opolycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, which comes from coal and crude oil. Olive Oil; Olive oil has several antioxidants and also healthy fatty acids that are very good for the dry skin on legs. I hope one of these things works for you! Explore further detail here. Thank you for being brave and talking about this. thanks for give information and providing the facility. . 4 tblsp extra virgin olive oil Ichthyosis affects people of all ages, races and gender. 1/3 c (40g) olive oil Add ingredients to blender, then blend until the consistency of mayonnaise. Ichthyosis vulgaris tends to get worse during the winter, when cold and dry air can cause symptoms. Ghee is loaded with key vitamins and fats, and absorbs quickly. I hope the olive oil helps, stay strong :). The disease rarely affects overall health. Website Design and Development by AIMG. Soaking, moisturizing, and removing the scale can also get rid of the rough bumps on the skin, known as keratosis pilaris. It has improved the texture of my skin. Author: Topic: Olive Oil Lotion: Cindylou183 Member . hello my son has had a severe case of Ichthyosis since he was 2 days old. There is a substantial overlap with AD, and IV is used as a minor criterion in some diagnostic tools for AD. I use it for my scalp and have had amazing results. These include shampoos with chemicals such as propylene glycol, sodium laurel sulfate, or DEA-Cetyl Phosphate. Exfoliation leaves the skin feeling soft, smooth, and free of dead skin cells that dull the complexion. 1/4 tsp vitamin E Ichthyosis vulgaris Inherited disorder of keratinization associated with conversion of profilaggrin to filaggrin that is characterized by fine scaling predominantly affecting the extensor surfaces of the extremities with characteristic sparing of the flexures . Ichthyosis vulgaris (also known as "autosomal dominant ichthyosis" and "Ichthyosis simplex") is a skin disorder causing dry, scaly skin.It is the most common form of ichthyosis,: 486 affecting around 1 in 250 people. Water misters are nice to have around in the summer if you start to overheat. Apart from the genetic cause, IV can also affect people with other underlying diseases like cancer, AIDS, etc. If both the parents had the condition, then the children might have a severe form of IV. You can put your favorite lotion or olive/coconut oil on scalp. There is a bulletin board there with loads of good information and people willing to answer questions. I had never heard of Ichthyosis before I read your hub -- this is valuable information! Leave it on over-night. Ichthyosis Vulgaris Treatment | Dorothee Padraig South . If I don't apply the cream, my skin begins to itch and scales are visible. 10.1016/S0738-081X(03)00051-8 10.1016/S0738-081X(03)00051-8 2020-06-11 00:00:00 Ichthyoses are a group of genetic disorders of keratinization characterized by conspicuous, extensive scaling. I use a few products. (Take this step only if directed by a doctor.). Other than these, there arent any reasons that may cause this disease. For those who don't know what ichthyosis is, I will begin this article with a definition from FIRST (Foundation for Ichthyosis and Related Skin Types): "Ichthyosis is a family of genetic skin disorders characterized by dry, scaling skin that may be thickened or very thin. Wait for 5-10 minutes. 1/3 c (40g) olive oil 1/3 c (40g) glycerin 1/3 c (40g) coconut oil 1/3 c (40g) safflower oil 1/3 c (40g) grapeseed oil 1/3 c (40g) purified water Essential oils as desired for scenting (I like orange, but lavender is also nice) Sterilize all equipment and containers with boiling water before starting. Jurez y 18 de Marzo Col. Centro, C.P 96360 Nanchital, Ver. Take oral and/or skin medications the doctor prescribes, including antibiotics to treat skin infections. It can take awhile to set up, I put mine in the fridge sometimes. Follow the links to read common uses, side effects, dosage details and user reviews for the. When you expose your skin to continuous airflow, it will slowly remove the moisture from the skin which causes dry skin. Adults can also develop the disease. My plan is to make up a list of all the tips I don't currently use and try them out one at a time for two weeks each (I don't want to try more than one at a time because then I won't know which tip worked). Facial dry skin, also known as ichthyosis or ichthyosis vulgaris, is a common condition characterized by an itchy, scaly rash of dry patches on the skin.. Ichthyosis and Social Security Disability. Ichthyosis vulgaris is an inherited skin disorder, which begins during the first year of life, although it is usually not present at birth. It is not easy, but oh how satisfying! Buy organic coconut cream or prepare coconut cream yourself at home. What type of ichthyosis do you have? Thank you for stopping by. Youve just made lotion. Exfoliators to Avoid with Ichthyosis Vulgaris. We are good friends on HP now :0). All rights reserved. Ichthyosis typically responds well to the topical keratolytic propylene glycol. weather radar naples, fl 34112; scott black natasha ryan today; captain walker inn provincetown; olive oil for ichthyosis vulgaris. So, if you have any great tips, now is the time to comment and tell me. 5.0 out of 5 stars. 3. Another good alternative is wearing a pair of cotton leggings and a snug, long-sleeved shirt. www.opendialoguemediations.com. Try putting some on him and bundling him up in some thick PJs if you can at night its gentle also. A third good place to look is on facebook. The other primary ichthyoses, autosomal recessive congenital ichthyosis, and epidermolytic ichthyosis, occur much less frequently, with an estimated prevalence of about 1 in 300,000. There are several Ichthyosis groups that are very active. Traditional treatment involves the application . Elderly people tend to have less amount of natural lubricants . Avoid sweating or overheating. Finally, Avalon Organics Lavender and neem shampoo also contain neem for treating skin diseases such as psoriasis, eczema, and dermatitis. Our newest trial has been olive oil soap in the bath. During the summer you usually cant even tell I have it and some days in the winter are worse than others. Write on! Cleveland Clinic Children's is dedicated to the medical, surgical and rehabilitative care of infants, children and adolescents. This is one of the very important routines every person with IV should observe regularly. I am currently battling with my scalp. My dermatologist suggested I use it because it also helps products penetrate deeper into the skin by cleaning out the pores and follicles. I will compile my list, pick one, and post my results here for everyone to see. But my company changed insurance and now they won't cover it, because it is very pricey. posted October 03, 2004 06:30 PM. Chicago Bulls Trade News, Certain heavy duty moisturizers that include the chemicals lactic acid, salicylic acid and urea can also help the skin shed properly. On rare occasions, it can be caused by a medication, such as cimetidine (Tagamet), which treats ulcers and acid reflux, and clofazimine (Lamprene) which treats leprosy or by a vitamin, like nicotinic acid (a B vitamin). The condition can begin in childhood, often in the first year of life. (published online 6 May 2013). Once a week, you can apply olive oil to your skin and let it sit for some time on it. 3 7 oz. 2 tbsp jojoba oil 2160250. buzz lightyear of star command complete series I can't wait to start! Just thought I'd through this out there for those with good prescript coverage. 1/3 c (40g) glycerin I am trying an overnight olive oil treatment tonight. Thin with plain Greek yogurt. I pour mine in wide mouth jelly canning jars, easy to dip into. Full Body Workout With Resistance Bands With Handles, England Vs Poland Prediction, Weight Loss for Health and Longevity, Science Reveals How Red Meat Harms the Heart, Flavored Vapes Still in Stores Despite Federal Ban, New COVID Antiviral Pills: What You Need to Know, Dr. Whyte's Book: Take Control of Your Cancer Risk, WebMD Loses Cherished Leader Kristy Hammam, Health News and Information, Delivered to Your Inbox, IMPORTANT information about user generated content. Follow the links to read common uses, side effects, dosage details and user reviews for the vitamins and supplements listed below. For your scalp I really recommend talking to your doctor about Selenium sulfate especially to help with the itching. I have been teased a lot and we never knew what it was and just thought it was different and that my skin is dry and that i had skin just like mom and later on saw dad had too. Ichthyoses are a heterogeneous group of cornification disorders characterized by a generalized scaling of the skin. Rub cream, lotion, or ointment onto your skin every day to add moisture. Other more rare types of ichthyosis have a different genetic background. Ichthyosis vulgaris Print Products and services Ichthyosis vulgaris develops when skin cells fail to shed normally and instead accumulate in thick, dry scales. Riley Clark (author) on December 27, 2015: I'll have too look into that Mauro :) that sounds amazing! I've never heard of Alph Keri Oil before! 1 tblsp castor oil, Melt your solid oils and add liquid oils and several drops lavender oil Linda Rogers from Minnesota on January 29, 2011: Your hub will help many out there with similar skin problems. Loofah sponges contain essential oils that moisturize the skin and rid it of dead cells, leaving it feeling soft and smooth. There is no cure for the disease but can be managed effectively and achieve complete relief from the symptoms. 2023 The Arena Media Brands, LLC and respective content providers on this website. The advantages of using natural lotions when you have Ichthyosis are that they contain only natural ingredients that are completely harmless to your skin. Another potential cause of ichthyosis vulgaris is a gene mutation (change) that can occur during fetal development. I hope this helps clear it up. The three best lotions for Ichthyosis Vulgaris are Shea Butter Lotion, Coconut Oil Lotion, and Avocado Oil Lotion. She uses fenugreek paste before a shower. Olive Oil Readily available. Autosomal recessive congenital ichthyoses, which include lamellar ichthyosis, congenital ichthyosiform erythroderma, and harlequin ichthyosis, are rare; their overall . Ichthyosis vulgaris is also commonly associated with other skin conditions. Skin diseases are very difficult to manage and it requires utmost care from us. Humidifiers are great to have to put moisture in the air at home. As much as I hate to touch dry yarn, a yarn washcloth in the bath works really well on more sensitive areas for exfoliation. Coconut oil lotions are particularly effective against diseases of the skin such as eczema, psoriasis, dermatitis, ichthyosis Vulgaris, and other skin disorders. the commitment trust theory of relationship marketing pdf; (396g) tub of Aquaphor For now, we use Vaseline, intensive repair, which is the best kind we've tried so far. We make two different moisturisers from Manuka but have other beautiful natural ingredients combined being: Kreme Plus: Is a natural moisturiser that can be used for Ichthyosis Vulgaris and is made from ingredients that include : Manuka, Leatherwood, Jojoba Oil, Sunflower Oil, Avocado oil, Shea Butter, Grapeseed Oil, Baby Care Gold: Is a baby moisturiser but adults use it too, and is also suitable for Ichthyosis: Manuka, Leatherwood, Coconut oil, Aloe Vera, Sunflower Oil, Zinc Oxide. DISCLAIMER :we are not medical professionals. All these ingredients are toxic to the skin and some even cause allergic reactions in patients with Ichthyosis Vulgaris. Causes Ichthyosis vulgaris is an inherited genetic mutation. olive oil for ichthyosis vulgarisinternational service dog laws. The very best to you! We are a family based in Geelong who make skincare from all natural ingredients including Manuka. It is common for skin to get dry and the condition is marked by less than the required water in the epidermis (the topmost skin layer). Method of using Olive Oil: Mingle some olive oil and brown sugar as a good paste. Each year, more than 16,000 babies are born with some form of ichthyosis. Your article is very good, and think your suggestions work for anybody with this problem and can help them a lot. Use mild soaps which are usually available with herbal products from organic shops. famous wizards and witches top 7; leipsic comments transcript 7 Fixes For Dry Dishwashing Hands (Solved), Calluses On Hands: Easy Ways To Help (Explained), 5 Reasons Why Beeswax Is Fabulous For Lips, 7 Reasons Why Beeswax Is Great For Eczema, Reasons Why Wounds Smell So Bad (Plus Fix). With age, the incidences for having dry skin increases. Dry, flaky skin is common during winter months in cold climates. (6 Best Ways). He has CIE ichthyosis. Since you are soaking, it will be easier and less painful to remove the dead skin. Dont rub the skin harshly. Shea butter lotion is especially good for nourishing dry skin as it contains natural moisturizers. My sister has vulgaris. Sometimes patients notice ichthyosis vulgaris symptoms before they are diagnosed with more serious diseases. shock top twisted pretzel beer recipe. IV occurs due to dry skin which is caused due to lack of hydration in the skin. Even doctors get surprised when I say I have this. It also helps nourish the skin and it can easily be absorbed by the skin without leaving an oily residue. Another major reason for heavy dry skin is prolonged exposure to blowing air. Instead of using inorganic moisturizers that might have some side effects, you can use natural products. The selenium sulfate doesn't burn and you just use it once a week or what you doctor thinks is right for your son. We do not endorse non-Cleveland Clinic products or services. olive oil for ichthyosis vulgaris. It looks and smells a lot like a liquid foundation, but it is amazing stuff. Do not use loofah sponges or body brushes directly on the skin as this may irritate it. This can be anywhere on the face, but usually concentrated in areas where hair follicles are more likely to block sweat glands and . Ichthyosis vulgaris: Overview. It is rich in lauric acid, capric acid, caprylic acid, myristic acid, palmitic acid, stearic acid, oleic acid, and linoleum acid. Advertising on our site helps support our mission. To remove scale (eg, if ichthyosis is severe), patients can apply a preparation containing 40 to 60% propylene glycol in water under occlusion (eg, a thin plastic film or bag worn overnight) every night after hydrating the skin (eg, by bathing or showering); in children, the preparation should be applied twice . This copyrighted material is provided by Natural Medicines Comprehensive Database Consumer Version. I have Icthyosis myself, I've had it my whole life but was "officially" diagnosed last year. Grapeseed oil is another natural moisturizer which penetrates the skin easily and helps keep it supple and free of dryness. This happens in severe cases and can cause overheating (because perspiration cools down the body). I am 39 years old and I live in a tropical country. Please share with us how ichthyosis affects you or your family: Type the text shown below in the corresponding box. Difference between I.V. Try not to take overly hot baths and showers. Pour it over your skin for a real treat. Also, dead skin cells dont shed quickly enough, causing a buildup of scales. Of those who have some form of ichthyosis, 95% have ichthyosis vulgaris. Riley Clark (author) on September 18, 2012: Hey Mandy. All issues pertaining to the care of patients with ichthyosis should be discussed with a dermatologist experienced in the treatment of their skin disorder. It is able to soothe . It is best to use natural home remedies because it doesnt have any side effect and you can rely on them lifelong. Don't rub your skin with the toweljust pat dry so your skin is still a little damp. All the lotions and oils in the world wouldn't do anything, and I hated the sticky feeling that lasted forever. All three of the best soaps for Ichthyosis are completely natural and very gentle. Shea Moisture Shampoo Shea moisture shampoo is particularly suitable for people with dry skin who often suffer from some form of skin disease. (I prefer something with urea in it or Lubriderm.). For professional medical information on natural medicines, see Natural Medicines Comprehensive Database Professional Version. lesley university main campus. Dry Skin on Legs: Looks like Scales, Snakeskin, Pictures Tinea pedis and palmoplantar keratodermas are most commonly restricted to palmoplantar areas. The three best shampoos for Ichthyosis Vulgaris are Shea Moisture Shampoo, CO Naturals Aloe and Olive Oil soap-free shampoo, and Avalon Organics Lavender and Neem. Thanks for your comment it's always nice to hear from someone else who has ichthyosis, a lot of people don't understand how painful and annoying it can be, especially with how much we try to cover it up and pretend its not there. This is ichthyosis. one old-time specialists said it was "fish-disease",because it looks like scales of . I'll try too get them up as soon as possible. With regular skincare and proper application of moisturizers, you can effectively replenish and maintain normal skin. Ichthyosis vulgaris is a genetic skin condition of autosomal dominant inheritance. Add coconut milk (one to two cans) to a bath. Another thing that works for me when I don't want to go through the whole oil process is first brushing my hair till the tangles are out, then combing through it starting at the scalp to loosen the dandruff. In addition to those mentioned above, there are a number of shampoos on the market that contain chemical additives and unnatural ingredients. The natural fats present in olive oil can improve skin growth and avoids scale buildup. I had never heard of it until my son was born with it 3 years ago. Ichthyosis vulgaris, on the other hand, results in the accumulation of thick, dry scales. This guide will help give you a great idea on which one is best for you. Golden Tulip Hotel Dubai Deira, The soap also contains Vitamin E, which has antioxidant properties that help prevent oxidation damage to cells and slow down the aging process of cells. Get it Fri, Oct 1 - Wed, Oct 6. honey and extra virgin olive oil. This makes me very insecure and i shy away from people because they look at me weirdly and like i have a disease that they can catch. If your legs are rough right now, invest in an exfoliator; St. Ives apricot scrub face scrub is great. After showering, he applies Curel lotion to his entire body. Ichthyosis Treatment. Make a calming skin mask beblending oats into a fine powder and adding honey. Thanks:). Don't waste butter when done moisturizing, I wipe it on my leg, its wonderful stuff. Information provided will only be used for FIRST activities and remain confidential. te winter months, so living in Australia I am happy to be only a few weeks off summer which begins in December. I will definitely give these ideas a try! Willie Nelsen Cbd Oil Dragonfly Cbd Oil Reviews Order Cbd Oil Wisconsin Cbd Oil And Lyrica. Causes, diagnosis and treatment are explained. Traditional treatment involves the application . Some people only need to treat their skin in the winter Take baths more than once a day. why did george selk leave gunsmoke; I'm thinking of adding more hubs dealing with the different specifics, such as scalp care and different products. I have CIE and live in a hot humid climate and these treatments calmed my inflammation, got rid of my itch in two days, and even reduced redness. Coconut oil or Coconut cream are highly recommended as a moisturizer. If you are interested in the best treatments for Ichthyosis, including soaps and moisturisers to the type of climate that is best, there are a few things you need to consider. Glaxal Base - 450g enterprise vienna airport; kuding tea and kidney disease. Hearsay. If I take a bath before bed (which I prefer because it takes so long), I have an adult-size pair of footie pajamas I love to put on after applying all of my lotions and creams. Rinse off with lukewarm water. What are the Causes of Ichthyosis Vulgaris? V. J. Skitch 1/11/2013 on November 01, 2013: . Ichthyosis and Social Security Disability - Social For more detailed information about the way ichthyosis is inherited, see the pages on genetics on the First Skin Foundation website, an . medlineplus.gov 2019 [Cited 03 August 2019]. Leadership Words For 2021, When it comes to perfumes or cologne, it is best to put it on your top layer of clothes so you don't irritate your skin. All of the amazing tips my readers have given me, as well as other tips I've found online, make me want to step out of my normal routine and see if I can find something that works better.